Below is a letter to the editor sent by Susan Hilder. It’s about the removal of the BNP candidate from yesterday’s hustings debate in Delph, and I’ve reproduced the letter in full.
If you would like to respond to the points made in the letter, you can either leave a comment below this post, or send an e-mail by clicking on the Contact option at the top of this page. If you would like an e-mail published on this website then please mark it as a letter to the editor, and I’ll be happy to do so.
“I’m neither a member or supporter of the BNP, however I do believe in free speech for all. What happened is in my opinion shameful, complete censorship. We may not agree with another’s view but that person or party has an equal right to have his say.
“Our grandparents fought to keep this country free and to allow us to have free speech. It was Hitler who silenced the people. He would be proud of whoever censored the hustings.
“This country has far more to be concerned with than the views of one political party. In the words of the great Englishman Winston Churchill, the truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is.”
Susan Hilder
I have to agree, while I didn’t blame Saddleworthnews for not pushing for interviews with all the BNP candidates during the GE last year (especially with young child in tow!), it is only fair that all candidates are invited to a panel debate. Griffin’s appearance on Question Time has shown that the BNP are capable enough of digging their own graves, and excluding them from these sorts of events just gives them more publicity.
I agree entirely. I also dislike the BNP and would never vote for them. However, this is supposed to be a democratic country in regards to free speech and no matter how offensive (as long as they are legal) the views of any party should be given as much chance as others to voice its views.
I detest some of the views of many of the major parties, especially their blatant hypocrisy, but I do not say they should be censored.
This is surely the day that Democracy died in this country,
That fact that this hasn’t been a main feature on the news says it all.
This would have been the top story if one of the the other candidates had been the victim of this political policing.Iv’e always been pro police, they have an hard job to do but I guess they are all walking on eggshells, frightened of the race card being played and losing them their jobs.
Please elucidate on how Democracy and free speech served by Forcibly removing one of the invited candidates from the Election Hustings?
This kind of use of The Police smacks of the kind of action that occurs in Totalitarian regimes.
Its an utter disgrace and a sad day for Democracy in Britain which we all see now see to be a Sham that is hastening a country that is indeed a one -party -with -three -names Dictatorship who are in turn dictated to by the unasked for Unelected EU Dictatorship
I lived through World War II and as a child I was bombed out of my house. We endured our suffering in those days so that we could preserve our democratic traditions and our way of life.
What happened at the hustings debate in Delph when the BNP candidate was forcibly removed without his being able to state his policies was an absolute disgrace. It was not democracy and it was not for this sort of thing that my generation and the generation before us fought, suffered and died.
To Susan Hilder:
Excellent letter, very well put indeed.
This is actually a very worrying development and smacks of Stalinist oppression and the gagging of free speech (unless you fall in line with the establishment). I hope the BNP take this to the courts, something as sinister as this cannot be allowed to go un-corrected, otherwise a dire precedent will be set.
This is very sinister indeed. Mr. Adams has committed no crime and has every right to be there reinforced by the representation of the people Act. The police should have refused to remove MR. Adams as this constitutes unlawful interference in the electoral process. It seems we have mob rule instead of democratic process now. Whether you agree or disagree with The BNP remember the words of Noam Chomsky…’If we don’t believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don’t believe in it at all.’
Freedom of speech along with the right to associate with a political party of ones choice without fear of persecution are fundamental parts of democracy. Susan rightly makes the point that “We may not agree with another’s view but that person or party has an equal right to have his say”
In Nazi Germany and Stalins Russia any political opposition was not only banned but anyone found to be involved faced imprisonment or even execution. Do we really believe that this happened overnight? No it was planned and began with similar episodes such as the one last night at the hustings in Delph.
I would be interested to know the feelings of the other speakers at the hustings last night, do they honestly believe that thier own personal objections to a person or a political party should come before the rights of their prospective constituents who deserve a democratic and open debate so that they can make their own decisions on the candidates who are running. Maybe the reason Mr Adams was not welcome had more to do with the fact that the people attending would have seen and heard an ordinary bloke speaking common sense and not a fascist, racist thug that the opposition make him out to be, that choice was taken away.
Well said Susan Hilder, What happened was an absolute disgrace. What level has this country descended to.
The removal of Derek Addams was the sort of action i would expect to read of taking place in some third world rat hole with no respect for, or experience of,democracy.The fact that it took place in Britain and has been applauded by so many so called democrats makes me shudder!Once a system starts to treat legal political parties differently then the system has lost its right to claim to be democratic.You can have a democratic system or you can treat registered,legal,political parties differently according to your individual whims.But you can’t do both at the same time.Democracy is too precious to be thrown away so carelessly!
Was the removal of Derek Adams a legal action?
If so then this country has plunged into the sinister depths of a totalitarian state.
The BNP candidate should have been allowed to speak it is a free country, and who ever arranged the meeting was in the wrong not inviting him. He has right to speak his views, may be people may have wanted to listen. I do not agree with there way of thinking, but he has a right
Agree - a well written letter and one with a very valid point. I’m no supporter of the BNP, however as a standing party, is it not fair they should have the right to join the events, and what about UKIP and the Bus Pass Elvis Party or the independents?
Who decides on which parties can be represented and when is the next planned event?
The other parties are obviously fearful of the truth being spoken by Derek Adams so resort to force when their powers of reason fails them. They only want to allow candidates that are broadly in line with each other so that they can keep their anti British policies in place, which they are showing they will do at all costs even at the expense of democracy.
This is nothing less than a public outrage. I wonder why the candidates from the other parties who appear to have no desire to see democracy done could not also be removed.
Did Mr Adamas commit a crime or public order offence? What right did the police have to remove him? Have the police broken the law and have the BNP legal recourse? If so, good luck to ’em!
There are ten candidates. Five were invited to answer questions - on specific issues local to Delph. The remaining four uninvited candidates did not protest - but all were welcome to join the audience (as at least one did - peacefully). Mr Adams attempted to disrupt the meeting by his occupation of the stage - and like any other person who’s behaviour would have been likely to cause a breach of the peace, he was politely escorted off the premises by the police. This is how things work in a civilised country.
Mr Adams, and the BNP are a disgrace.
We at the UAF and Hope Not Hate applaud the decision to have him removed from the stage and the venue.
Free speech has no place in our society where the BNP are concerned, and this shows with the backing we receive from the prime Minister, David Cameron and other influential politicians who realise democracy is to fragile to be left in the hands and words of the nazi BNP.
Well done to the Police, shame you had no cause to lock him up.
In no way do I support the BNP and their bad policies.
However, in our so called (British) Democratic system, in which we consider that the Electorate is paramount, we have Electoral decisions put aside by the Courts, a minority of the Electorate (40%) having vast majorities of MPs (FPTP).
Now a coalition exacting policies which the majority of the electorate do not support, we see censorship and sometimes physical abuse of people with opposite views. Shaw - Asda - NiCl appearance -looked like an assault by an MP on a student protester.
It would have been better if the audience had been able to listen (or start to) and then shout him down if the BNP candidate started to promulgate views beyond what the audience classed as acceptable views.
Dear Readers, I was in email contact with Cllr Hulme who organised the event and he refused to invite 5 of the candidates included myself. I informed him that the meeting broke Electoral commission rules on hustings, the Millgate Arts Centre building recieves public funding and the meeting was advertised as an open event. The people of Delph should have been allowed to ask any questions to any of the candidates, in controlling the meeting like they did and only allowing on candidates who’s parties are already discredited with Scandles, deciet and lies was an insult to the people of Saddleworth and anti-democratic. Cllr Hulmes reasons were unjustified and when he lost the argument his emails reverted to All capitals and in bold ie, shouting in text language. Stephen Morris English Democrats
Here here to Dave and Dr Jason Sturgess. I was beginning to feel very depressed by the earlier comments. It was totally within the organisers’ rights not to invite the BNP onto the platform. The BNP candidate could - like another candidate - have sat in and commented from the audience. We DO live in a democracy - hence the BNP candidate’s right to stand, leaflet, canvass, and campaign in this by-election. I don’ believe that the comments about stalinist opression and police states above reflect the majority view. Most of us in Saddleworth and Oldham East know the BNP for what it is - a party of repugnant rascists.
Stephen Morris: Thanks for that, I was unware it was organised by Cllr Hulme but that alone explains everthing. I am also not surprised that the usual posters of various other forms of hatred and bias support any action against free speech when it clashes with their narrow-minded views.
Okay I know this either won’t get posted or will be deleted very quickly but it’s funy how all of the comments here are now only those too stupid to see what’s going on in the country & still want to just call the BNP names like racist or fascist. I woner where all of the more moderate or maybe even pro coments have gone, don’t tell me censored so much for free speek.
I know for certain that there were some great & fair comments here earlier today especially one by someone called Lee all strangly gone now.
Dave - Not true. I’ve moderated out some comments because they were defamatory. But all of the comments which have been published are still on the site.
If only the public took the time to read the BNP manifesto all misconceptions over the BNP would be instantly banished. The problem as I understand is one of the other parties have read the BNP manifesto nd they realise that the BNP is the only party with real concerns for the future of the UK.
TO TAKE SUCH DRASTIC STEPS WITH Mr ADAMS FLIES IN FONT OF THE PRINCIPLES LAID DOWN IN THE UN DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS 1948 AND SETS A MOST DANGEROUS PRECEDENT!
sturgess says democracy is to fragile. How the hell would he know anything about democracy. The uaf and hope not hate are marxist organisations, name me any country where marxist have any power that any other group are allowed to speak freely. The fact that cameron is signed up to the uaf shows that the lib/lab/con partys are all the same not interested in our rights just surpresing true democracy.
Jason Sturgess and Katy Boulton’s comments represent everything wrong with this country. With politically correct Marxist people like this it is no wonder we are in the state that we are. Can they not see the irony of what they are saying ? Freedom of speech should be for everyone or no one, simple as that.
I write as somebody who has voted in every single election I have been able to. I would never ever vote BNP but I believe they should have the right to express their views - that is a democracy - if they break the law - either in speech or written form then - yes - throw the book at them - But this is only going to give then the type of publicity they dream of. I shall be supporting Elwyn because what he did was brave and honest - and hopefully will have gone some way to cleaning up politics in future elections.
Nice Churchill quote from the above letter-writer, Susan Hilder. Here’s another one - “The fascists of tomorrow will be the anti-fascists of today”. He also said that Labour rule would eventually lead to a police state.
It reminds me of a rather famous statement attributed to Pastor Martin Niemoller:
They came first for the Communists, and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew.
Then they came for me and by that time no one was left to speak up.
And today in Britain,
“They came first for the BNP … “
Ok I think everyone agrees that 6 police officers taking an election candidate out of an election hustings is something very dangerous indeed.
Why do we not ……. hold the hustings again, in the same place, invite ALL THE CANDIDATES?
Hosted by the Saddleworth News. Call me you have my number, Clive Jefferson, election agent for Derek Adams.
It would seem that there is none so intolerant - as the perveyors of tolerance. No normal British person can possibly rejoice in seeing a registered election candidate physically removed from an elections hustings by (of all people) the POLICE! Today all the electorate feels ripped off - by a corrupt system of politics which holds everyone of us in a ‘Heads we win - Tails you lose’ vice like grip. It’s time to look at other options. I feel as though I live in a fascist state NOW!
I must congratulate the Saddleworth News for such an erudite piece of reporting where this particular subject encompasses everything that we need to know about the current political climate in this country. First we have a superb letter by Susan Hilder,Calm,reasonable etc. Then we have a DOCTOR (Of what I’m not sure) declaring that ‘Free speech has NO PLACE IN OUR SOCIETY’. !!! and whom he proudly proclaims to be an ‘anti-fascist’!!!! Like the lady and Churchill says ‘The next Fascists will be the ANTI FASCISTS’. Great job Doctor, thanks a million.
Jason Sturgess, you have revealed the UAF for what it is, a Marxist organization bent on the destruction of freedom of speech and political expression. Your words: “Free speech has no place in our society where the BNP are concerned…” In other words, only those who agree with you should be permitted to speak, somewhat reminiscent of Nazism and Stalinism, don’t you think?. Of course you have the backing of David Cameron, he was one of the founder signatories of the UAF and that makes him a disgrace.
If ye love wealth better than liberty,
the tranquility of servitude
better than the animating contest of freedom,
go home from us in peace.
We ask not your counsels or your arms.
Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you.
May your chains set lightly upon you,
and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen
One has to wonder, really wonder at the gobsmacking hypocrisy of the so-called “left” in all this.
New Labour aped recycled bits of Tory policy in 97 to fib their way in, Gordon Brown filched BNP policies wholesale on the way out. In between they were unequivocal screwups who left us in the s..t
As an activist in the late 70s and early 80’s against the sometimes uniformed nutjobs of the NF I now see people behaving quite incredibly foolishly denying a platform to somebody they disagree with who has unequivocally equal legal right to be there.
The shrill bleaters here attempting to dignify what’s going on would do well to *actually read* a bit of 19th and 20th century history - we’ve been here before and your hysterical outpourings are pathetic.
Here, I say to the folk running this electoral shambles you’ve clearly failed and this is a brazen attempt to coerce the public’s choice. The self evident truth of your argument should prevail, not silencing the other guys.
That’s it = a *FAIL* , guys - I’d pop back to the history books to see what happens next after you nick the opposition’s policies and then try to shut them up. Remember, Hitler /was/ a socialist eh?
As has been mentioned above, it is “free speech” not “free speech except in the following circumstances…” - either there is free speech or there is none. It is with sadness I note that in Britain it is now the latter; and the state sanctioned conversion of Custodians of the Peace to State Enforcers is plain for all to see.
Equally disgraceful were the people to the left and right of the BNP delegate. They kept their eyes down and their mouths shut while the police carried out their orders.
I am old now and have witnessed my share of Bad Things. This little episode has nearly moved me to tears - and I wouldn’t vote for the BNP even if Joanna Lumley was standing for them…
I cannot believe the words of Dr Jason Sturgess. I do not believe it is democracy that is fragile. It is the other candidates and their supporters who are frightened the electorate might hear something they like from the BNP or other fringe parties. The main parties have tried to shut down debate on many issues. They do not want to listen. They are afraid of competition and losing. There appears to be a lot of anti-democrats around these days.
If I lived in the area I would vote for the BNP just to show that I do not agree with the anti freedom attitude of the organisers of this meeting
The people do not realise how often the candidates from minor parties are deliberately ignored or mistreated by organisers of hustings. Local TV, local Church groups and other organisations are guilty - so as to preserve the monopoly of the LibLabCon. I despise the BNP but their treatment was an act of totalitarianism.
1984 has come a tad late!
In answer to Dr Jason Sturgess, what he is actually saying is that free speech can only be free to some people, ie people who have the same views as he has. I suppose any Comunist supporter would be welcome to free speech ignoring the fact that Communism has been responsible for more racialy and politically motivated ethnic cleansing than any other political persuasion in History since the turn of the 20th Century, and still spouts its evil bile in this world.
David Cameron and the rest of the Socialist influential politicians you speak of no nothing of Democracy and freedom of speech. That is why people get arrested in Whitehall for naming Britains war dead in current illegal wars. You Dr Sturgess need to wake up.
And did you notice how none of the other candidates made the least squeak of protest, but cravenly pretended nothing was happening? They’re not real men, just weaklings and creeps. I despise them.
Under current government policy, the indigenous peoples of the British Isles will become a minority in their own homeland not long into the second half of this century. The new majority will be Muslim. Numerous examples from throughout history suggest that the British minority will not be treated very well. This means that women such as Katy Boulton can look forward to a status similar to that of the Christian Pakistani village woman recently in the news. Hope you enjoy that, Katy. Meanwhile, Dr Jason Strurgess need not fret that “Free speech has no place in our society where the BNP are concerned”, because there won’t be. There won’t be any free speech for him, either.
Some voters in Delph may have wished to discuss the grim future awaiting the UK under current policies, but a corrupt and disecredited political system - supported by the likes of DR Sturgess and Ms Boulton - don’t want that to happen. You reap what you sow.
I do not come from Saddleworth. I do not support the BNP though I have sympathies towards several of their policies. And I was not in the hall to see how it was Derek Adams took the stage. It does not appear to have caused any commotion from the other candidates, and it was not until Mr. Adams was physically removed from his chair that the other candidates stood and seemingly left. So from this short clip we are left with the appearance of what might be an organiser objecting to Mr. Adams presence and calling for the Police to remove him. What does this tell us of party politics in any age, let alone todays? That your candidates are selected by someone else, before you get to hear them speak. Doesn’t sound right to me. Sounds more like ‘Hobson’s’ choice.
If the organisers of an open debate selectively choose who to invite, it is not an open debate. If the people of Saddleworth do not want to vote for any particular candidate, they need not. If they want to hear what their own chosen party members wish to say, then go to their offices. But if as it is claimed to be: an open debate, then any opposition should be heard and debated with. The act of ejecting one candidate and not all is discrimination, and those who heckled and shouted “out” should themselves have left the room to allow debate to continue. How can one understand a persons point of view if they are not listened to?
For the Police to have been called in when no visible crime had been committed, no violence had occurred, no damage had been done, and to remove a legitimate candidate is quite out of order - both for the Police, the organisers, and those people who wish to hear no opposing views other than their own.
National politics has come under considerable criticism these past fifteen years and especially so with such scandals as have been seen recently. But choosing any one party over another of late has seen less change occur than ever before - the main three parties are singing from the same lie sheet. But heaven forbid they get a challenge, for as any party that pipes up and gains even a little support, they will get knocked back down and trashed as fringe loonies to be removed at any cost - freedom of speech in the UK is history. The sooner people realise this discrimination is planned and orchestrated by the powers that be to ensure their continued existence the better. Far too many accept the pain of the present system. It’s rotten from root to leaf, it’s time the entire system and all its construct was demolished and the people of these Islands replace it with a system that works very well elsewhere. One shining example is that of the Swiss. What we currently have, and what has been historically handed down, is nothing less than a continued line of corruption and theft.
This issue is extremely serious and debate on it must not be suppressed by those controlling the national and international media. Crucially I believe that members of the POLICE FORCE in the area need to tred very carefully here as well. They would be well advised that (since the NUREMBERG TRIALS) the defence of “I was only following orders” is no longer a valid one.
[…] are some comments from the Saddleworth News worthy of reproduction: “Mr Adams, and the BNP are a […]
I no longer live near Delph, but did until I moved away to join the Forces as a young man.
I found out about the Police removing the BNP candidate from the hustings just today and it has caused me considerable disquiet. I am a ‘conservative’ voter, so the BNP would not get my vote, but we are supposed to live in a Democracy where political representatives have a right to be heard. I spent a large part of my adult life believing that what I was doing was ensuring the safety of our Democracy. I am sure there would have been no difficulty in any Communist candidate getting a hearing, although much of my working life was taken up opposing them to the best of my ability.
I watched the video (shot by the BNP, but nevertheless) and Mr Adams did not appear to be making trouble, causing any disturbance or even speaking for that matter. Agreed, the video may have been edited, we have no way of knowing.
So, I have e-mailed to the Greater Manchester Police this morning to ask for an explanation, as to why Mr Adams was removed. There is no easy way of e-mailing them, but I have managed to do so in the name of ‘feedback’. I have expressed my concern in the e-mail that their action was undemocratic, or they may have had a legitimate reason. I await a reply.
I am very sad to read the comment of Dr Jason Sturgess. I never thought Doctors would be ‘political’, perhaps I would not get treated if Dr Sturgess thought I was a BNP member. The Jews in Germany in the ’30s must have felt the same way.
James you are saying that the Dotor should not make a statement, but you are complaining about the people having the right to be heard, but you a quite clear that the Doctor should not. So do you believe in free speech or not.
Which candidates were invited to the hustings? I believe five including the BNP candidate were not, so which were? I assume that Labour, LibDem and Conservative were - as the main parties in the country, but which of the minor parties were invited and which were not? I would be interested to see if those invited are the five highest polling candidates or not…
* Debbie Abrahams (Labour)
* Derek Adams (British National Party)
* Kashif Ali (Conservative)
* Peter Allen (Green Party)
* David Bishop (Bus-Pass Elvis Party)
* The Flying Brick (Monster Raving Loony Party)
* Loz Kaye (Pirate Party of the United Kingdom)
* Stephen Morris (English Democrats)
* Paul Nuttall MEP (UK Independence Party)
* Elwyn Watkins (Liberal Democrats)
James Cheetham above raises a very valid point. We are told that currently our brightest and best young men and women are in Afghanistan in the name of ‘Freedom and Democracy’. I recall some months ago that twelve soldiers DIED in order to facilitate an election in Helmand province - (although THAT turned out to be rigged anyway). Our soldiers are dying whilst(supposedly) forcing democracy on to a corrupt and violent land that does not even want it - why is that same democracy being curtailed and devalued back here in Britain? I know several soldiers and ex-soldiers - all of whom have no idea why our forces are deployed to Afghanistan - other than that it has nothing to do with the reasons given by our politicians. Perhaps this is another reason why they are so uneasy at giving the BNP any sort of public platform.
If it were not for the hard work of the UAF, Hope Not Hate, the Unions, journalists and upright politicians such as Mr Cameron PM battling fascist ideologies, such as the BNP and EDL, this country would be in a state of war.
For the UAF, both leaders, Mr Bennett and Smith (HNH) have openly opposed platforms for the BNP,as have the major political parties. Millions of people voted for these parties each year, so are they all wrong?
All that is needed for evil to win is for a good person to say nothing.
Why do you think Mr Phillips of the EHRC has had so many cases in the courts against the BNP. Racism on his behalf! I think not he is a blackman.
Mr Ali for the Conservatives is the ideal choice, as let us not forget it was through the last Labour MP, Mr Woolas which has left us in this situation.
No platform for the BNP\EDL. No press coverage and no radio or tv interviews. Drive them out of the community.